Let's say Sufjan Stevens is gay, part 4

Let’s say Sufjan Stevens is indeed gay. Well then, what kind of gay would he be? I mean, does he look like a fem submissive or a straight-acting macho-gay, a bear or a twink, and most importantly, a top or a bottom?

The homoerotic subtext in his songs are mostly too confusing; Sufjan sings he’s really just like “John Wayne Gacy, Jr.,” which I guess means that he’s a top (I am assuming homosexual child molester-murderers are tops), but he tends to portray himself as a passive in a lot of his songs; for example, he sings “I’d give my body to be back again” in the song “To Be Alone With You.”

Sufjan Stevens - a bear or a twink?
Sufjan Stevens – a bear or a twink?

I think this is one thing that will remain a mystery even after, I mean if, Sufjan gets outed. I mean, aside from Anderson Cooper, who everyone now knows is a power-bottom, how many openly gay celebrities’ top/bottom/versatile status do you know? A more pertinent question is this: how do I know all these gay stuffs; top, bottom, bear, twink? Could I have caught the gay from reading too much Gawker?

Corrections – January 30, 2006: I have been informed by an acquaintance of mine that Sufjan would be an otter, not bear, as he lacks one of the prerequisites of the beardom: rounds of rolling fat around the belly. I sincerely regret this error.

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78 Responses to Let's say Sufjan Stevens is gay, part 4

  1. sally says:

    Definetly a bottom. Look in his eyes, he seems so submissive. And the lyrics mostly all point to that.

    This pretty much makes me upset. Because I’d love it if he married me.

  2. Curtis says:

    Okay, I’m not sure if this blog in particular is perhaps sarcastic or if its indeed 100% serious. However, I would like to comment by saying that this may be a fairly gross mis-reading of Mr. Sufjan’s lyrics. One major thing to take into account is his faith. This is, infact, the single most important thing to understand about Sufjan Stevens: his music is emensly influenced by his faith. The words he uses are very carefully chosen (as we all know) and to do them the injustice of looking at what each individual line says rather than what the song says (or the album). The things that he says in his songs can be taken either as litteral songs with enuendo, or as songs with impressive depth and reverence for his faith. Take for example: “To Be Alone With You”

    You gave your body to the lonely.
    They took your clothes.
    You gave up a wife and a family.
    You gave your ghost.
    To be alone with me.
    To be alone with me.
    To be alone with me,
    you went up on a tree.
    To be alone with me,
    you went up on a tree.
    I’ve never known a man who loved me

    This passage can easily be taken literally, or it can be taken as a beautiful interpretation of what his faith has done for him. Some of these things sound gay all by themselves, but taken as simplistic theology the song takes on an entirley new meaning. The song is a sort-of lament for what he has been given. Quite powerfull. Thanks for your time.

  3. Brian says:

    I agree with Curtis, the article here
    http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/interviews/s/stevens_sufjan-04/
    talks about Sufjan’s Christian faith and how it influences his music. I don’t believe that you can claim that he is gay based on his art.

  4. Squee says:

    Oh, just sod off. Christian, repressed homosexual – same difference.

    Definitely a bottom.

  5. John says:

    Hmm, maybe – his lyrics are based on both theological foundations and homosexual ones?? So, he’s just a faithful christian who likes other boys and writes music about both things..

    :]

  6. Jaime Prater says:

    Hmmm, is Sufjan gay??? Well, I am not sure. My radar is somewhat acute when it comes to matters such as these. I’d venture to guess that he is homosexual [as opposed to gay]. I am listening to him speak right now and his voice, his delivery, hmmm… I’d rather not box him though. The world doesn’t need any more labels then it already has.

    At the same time humility, passivity, gentleness, sensitivity and kindness can and has been misperceived as being gay in the past.

    I am gay but I am Christian, so the two are not mutually exclusive. In some circles they are however.

    Jaime

  7. JackStoker says:

    I’m sorry, but who cares whether he is gay or not?
    It’s his music that matters, and if it’s homosexuality that’s lead to such beautiful songs then we need more gays on the music scene!

  8. Molly says:

    I’m only trying to find his sexual preference because I’d like to know the perspective from which he writes his songs.

    But something showed up in Pitchfork Media today that said that he and Rosie Thomas are having a baby together. This may be a joke, but if it’s not, congradulations to them both!

    http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/news/06-04/05.shtml#sufjanrosie

  9. Molly says:

    Nope. No baby. It was a joke. The quest continues.

  10. Billy Budd says:

    I, for one, believe the quest to discover Sufjan’s Steven’s gayness is of paramount importance. Knowing whether or not he considers himself an ‘otter’ or a ‘twink’ would certainly enlighten me on whether we would be compatible once my stalking- uh, once my search pays off. Maybe he’s versatile?

    Seriously, though- even if you agree with the Christian lyrics of “To Be Alone with You” (which I do), you can’t deny that there are many straight guys who would say the sentence “i’ve never known a man who loved me” with a straight face. From a guy who’s into same-sex desire, however, it makes perfect sense. In a way, all the spiritual songs remind me of the way the monks and painters of old eroticized the sainthood of St. Sebastian (now a gay icon). Similarly, Sufjan’s spiritual songs have a certain intimacy about them. That the dramatis persona of the song does what he does “to be alone with [him]” (which is compulsively repeated) suggests that Sufjan is captivated with the idea of intimacy (even if only spirtual) with this particularly *male* being, which you wouldn’t necessarily emphasize if, well, you know.

    Also, why would the chorus of “Pallisades” repeat “we were in love, we were in love,” when the song is about his male “best friend”? Either he’s extremely comfortable with his sexuality, or…

    Either way, he’s hot, and I’m bookmarking this site.

  11. Joseph says:

    maybe he is just comfortable with his sexuality, whatever it may be, and that is something to be applauded. i dig the lyrics in super sexy woman:

    She’s got a Superman smile
    And Wonder Woman’s hair.

    the one thing that is clear is sufjan’s willingness to portray both masculine and feminine traits as desirable.

  12. Rob says:

    “To emulate an epicene
    To elevate a sound
    This life, a winner needs
    A winner needs a wand…”

    epicene: having an ambiguous sexual identity, lacking characteristics of either sex, or having characteristics typical of the other sex

    Sufjan’s mentioned dating an older girl, which is what “The Dress Looks Nice” is supposedly about. I think that was back in his high school days, but he’s 30 now. A lot can change between then.

    Perhaps he is bisexual? Or maybe even asexual…ya know little Sufjan spores!

    Probably shouldn’t read too far into the lyrics. He’s admitted he doesn’t even know what he’s writing half the time. But hey, dare to dream.

  13. Emily says:

    Sufjan is not homosexual, bisexual, or asexual. His lyrics and vocal stylings make him unique, but not in a sexual way. However, I would venture to say that he is very comfortable with his sexuality and I think he likes to make you think :).

    Here’s a Christian translation of “To Be Alone With You”‘s chorus:

    You gave your body to the lonely. : Jesus gave up himself to those least loved
    They took your clothes. : Jesus was stripped of all he owned, even his clothes
    You gave up a wife and a family. : Jesus did not marry because he knew God’s plan
    You gave your ghost. : The holy spirit
    To be alone with me. : To have an exclusive relationship
    To be alone with me. : ”
    To be alone with me, : ”
    you went up on a tree. : Jesus was crucified on a cross
    To be alone with me, : To have an exclusive relationship
    you went up on a tree. : Jesus was crucified on a cross
    I’ve never known a man who loved me : Jesus’ love is abundant and real

  14. AJ says:

    I pretty sure this video convinced me that he is gay or bi. Whatever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ZUUzsd9VE

  15. westvillager says:

    Wow, watching this video made my gaydar explode.

    Take that Christians, maybe one of your own like both – Christ and cock.

  16. Raymond S says:

    Alright, so basically Sufjan wants to have sex with jesus. That is what I get out of this song.

    It’s obviously about Jesus and he want’s to be “alone” with him. hmmm.

  17. Austin says:

    What about his song “Super Sexy Woman” off of the album “A Sun Came”? He’s totally straight.

  18. EmoEric87 says:

    Probably one of the most mistakable things is when we try to analyze things that an artist is expressing. Even worse is when we try to “read” stereotypes. While I understand that this is part of the the curse of his “public” life, Sufjan is not anything that he doesn’t say he is. If he hasn’t declared himself to be homosexual, why does it matter. Does that change how you listen to his music? It probably shouldn’t. Also, when he sings “To be Alone with You” he was not talking about a romantic relationship with a man. He was definitely referring to (first verse) what he would do to be in the presence of his savior, and (second verse) what Jesus Christ did for the same reason. These feelings are shared with Bible authors as well. If that makes them “gay”, so be it.
    Also I don’t think though that “The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades Is Out To Get Us!” indicates that he is a homosexual. It is a GOOD, RIGHT, and HOLY thing to love others, be they man or woman. It is GOOD, RIGHT, and HOLY to for a man to love another man. It becomes sinful if the love is erotic (Homo-eroticism is a perverted type of love. I am using the form of the word which originates from the verb form of pervert, meaning distorted), or if it displaces love for God. None of those sinful notions are indicated in any of his songs, however much you may want to manipulate his lyrics to say those things. Thank God for Sufjan for articulating real, true, honest love of people around him and his friends.

  19. nautical nun says:

    oh come on, it’s not about the music… the guy is sexy as hell (pun intended) and i wanna know if he likes cock (not that i think he would like mine… or maybe if i meet him on a plane, and he thinks i’m kinda adorable eating him up with my eyes and stuff, and maybe… oh here i am daydreaming again…)

  20. Ray says:

    Jesus Nautical nun, that shit you wrote makes me wanna puke.
    get straight you fagget.

  21. pussylips says:

    oh come on, it’s not about the music… the guy is sexy as hell (pun intended) and i wanna know if he likes pussy (not that i think he would like mine… or maybe if i meet him on a plane, and he thinks i’m kinda adorable eating him up with my eyes and stuff, and maybe… oh here i am daydreaming again…

  22. lydia says:

    Sufjan Stevens has a trillion Biblical references in his songs, whether they are subtle or plain obvious, so it’s pretty obvious he has some sort of Christian faith. “To Be Alone With You” as we have already discussed, is biblical. Being alone with Jesus does not have anything to do with selfish desires, because well first-off, Jesus hates sin. To be alone with Jesus is to focus on Him in prayer and devote yourself to what He says in His word. It is a prayerful song, hard for some to understand, easy for others.

    In “The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades is Out to Get Us!” he does say “touching his back with my hand, I kiss him…” does that necessarily mean he kissed him on the lips? What if, using the words in the sentence, we assume he kissed his hand and touched his friend where he was bit “seven times”? I’ve looked up the meaning to this song and found several fans saying that Sufjan describes at some concerts that this song is about an event that took place when he was young with his friend(s). I could picture a young boy playing around and kissing his hand and touching his friend’s back as if it would make the bites go away. I could also picture his friend getting offended as the song says and wanting to break his friendship with Sufjan. When he says he loved his friend, well… would you like it much if you said you loved a friend of yours that was the same sex and people took it as you were gay? I love my friends, not in that way of course. Another argument could arise as he says “we were in love.” Does that mean with each other? Well, if that were the case, why did his friend run away upset? Couldn’t it mean they were inlove with themselves (some Christians have those themes in their songs)? Or the days they spent together, their trips? It’s possible.

    “John Wayne Gacy, Jr.” It is a song about a sick man who nobody knew would commit such crimes as he did. The song explains that people loved him for his humor and his conversation. They never expected him to have raped and killed boys, hiding them under his floor. This song is all about humilty. Sufjan is acknowledging the fact that he is a sinner, we all are. A LOT of people wouldn’t admit that, because they are in love with themselves. Sufjan is saying that no matter what people see in us, there is so much more that only we know about. It’s sin nature that Sufjan isn’t denying. “In my best behavior, I am really just like him. Look beneath the floorboards for the secrets I have hid.” This doesn’t mean he is a rapist and a killer.. or gay. He is simply saying that he’s not perfect and has done some things in his life he isn’t proud of…. just like everyone else in this world.

  23. lydia says:

    Also, just cause he likes to be color coordinated, all with the same shoes and socks with his band on stage doesn’t mean he’s gay. It just further proves his artistic genius.

  24. Scott Johnson says:

    If you are referring to Sufjan’s passionate speak about a man who loves him, just think of the context of all of his music. He is a devout Christian that has given his life to the lord. Since he loves Jesus, he loves a man. But it is not in the ignorant way that you put it…”gay” Please, badger someone else. Like yourself.

  25. Ralph says:

    Just because he’s into Christian symbolism does not mean he’s a practicing Christian either. I’m an artist and gay and was raised Catholic. Christ and Mary pop up in my work all the time, this iconography is inextricably part of my being – it doesn’t mean I’m actually a christian. Also many of his lyrics are ironic (pointing to gay), and FUNNY. I assumed he was gay, becuase the aesthic of his music definitly fits in with a the current thread of lovely, ironic folksy, classical gay music – such as Belle and Sebastian, Rufus Wainwright, The Hidden Cameras, Antony, The Magnetic Feilds etc. If anything we should be questioning if he is straight or not, and if he is, then he is definitly being influenced by gay music and culture.

  26. Lydia says:

    “All good thoughts is not the act of doing
    what we want but what we should be improving.
    Properties, ideas, a woman’s pleasure
    is empowered by love, a perfect measure!”

    from Sufjan Steven’s song “All Good Naysayers, Speak up! Or Forever Hold Your Peace!”

    Why would a woman’s pleasure be a good thought or an act of doing that concerns him if he were homosexual?

  27. Ralph says:

    Homosexual? Need you be so clinical; can’t you just say gay? Gay men artists have historically written about women… in the past as a proxy for themselves becuase it was the only way to tell their own stories and express their feelings, and becuase of a fascination with feminine power.

    It’s actually kind of offensive that people assume he’s straight, and have a problem with people saying he’s gay. Assume he’s gay and ask if he is straight – becuase he is definitely making gay music; that is he is making music that is part of a gay cultural thread. If you like Sufjan’s music – you’ll probably like a lot of other music made by gay people.

  28. lydia says:

    I used the word “homosexual” because everyone else was using “gay” so much. There is a group called Anathallo that sounds a lot like Sufjan Stevens’s style and they, too, make music that has very religious background. They are all guys and I think a couple girls. Are all of the guys in the band gay because they like that kind of music? I’d say that Anathallo and Sufjan are experimental, and I don’t think that makes anyone gay. So far we’ve established that when Sufjan talks about love from or for a man, it is God. He has some songs that would say he’s not gay, “Supersexy Woman” and the one I quoted above. How can we really say if he is gay or not, no one knows for sure… no one has heard it from him. You say gay men have historically written about women, probably to stay under the covers about their true sexuality, but today’s culture is far more open to homosexuality and any homosexual should feel free to come out and say it. Nobody cares as much anymore.

    I’m convinced that he isn’t gay. I can’t say that I am right because only he really knows. It’s really none of our business, but I figured I’d put my two cents in this debate.

  29. Ralph says:

    White people make R&B and Hip-Hop – but these are still black musical styles. So then, yes – it is possible he is straight, thats what I said. But his music, which I would not call experimental, is part of a gay musical thread, which often has Christian overtones.

    God, Christ and other Christian figures – specifically Saint Sebastian and John the Baptist, have been historical proxies for men to express love of men in music, art and literature (just like using women, i.e Blanch Dubois in Streetcar Named Desire). It is doubtless that Sufjan is not only influenced by these artists and writers (indeed he has stated his greatest influence is Walt Whitman, the most famous American gay poet) but is intelligent enough to analyze their true hidden meanings (or not so hidden meanings), even if many of his fans are not. And it’s not about “staying under cover” it’s about continuing a historical and cultural tradition of thought – irony, aestheticism and an exploration of themes of platonic and romantic love. Sufjan is into these very gay themes, gay or not, he reads it, looks at it, consumes it and is ADDING to it. So indeed, it is perfectly valid to ASSUME he’s gay and ask if he’s straight, rather than the other way around.

    Further, he is probably having a lot of fun playing with the ambiguity of his sexuality in much the same way David Bowie has. Bowie, who now claims to be straight, acknowledges his being influenced by a gay aesthetic (and back in the day claiming to be bisexual) and is indeed, straight or not, a gay icon. I’m sure it is part of Sufjan’s intention for us to be having this discussion, wether he’s gay or not, becuase of his ambiguous lyrics and becuase he doesn’t say in public one way or the other. He wants it to be ambiguous, he wants to be open to interpretation because he is a literary person, and an aspiring star.

    You’r definitly wrong about one thing though: he is not the only one who knows his orientation – the person sucking his cock has a pretty good idea.

  30. Lydia says:

    I agree with you, he probably intends for us to have these discussions. He’s very creative and bugs us being so mysterious.

    And you’re right, he may not be the only one that knows his orientation – if he has a significant other, they know too. No need for crude talk. None of us know, as well, if Sufjan practices sexual purity before marriage like the Bible calls us to do. Again, it’s none of our business. But I think that assuming anything about him is wrong because we think we know, but we don’t. I have an opinion, but I can’t say I’m right, I don’t have the right to.

  31. Thomas says:

    I think Sufjan is not gay, but I do think that he’s totally hot. Like the real Jesus (not Falwell’s or Dobson’s), I will wager that Sufjan is cool with gays being gay. That’s the way God made them.

  32. Clara Engel says:

    people want to know because the Gays are at war with the mainstream – states are PASSING LAWS AGAINST US, preventing us from marrying, the religious right are out for our blood – we have been lulled into complacency by crap like Will and Grace that is trying to tell us we’re accepted – we are not – they still hate us – and if more famous or semi-famous people would just stand up and say, ok, I’M GAY, it would give some poor, struggling little gay person somewhere one more role model, one more hero – we can’t all live in pink bubbles in nyc and san francisco, it is still hard out there in the rest of the country and thank the good lord jesus christ for people like rufus and antony and s. merrit and jake shears and babydaddy….if ss is a gay, why hide it? is he really just a calculating careerist, afraid it will be too much of an issue, lose him part of his audience, i mean, the guy’s gotta make a living, and right, it shouldn’t matter in the end, but to answer someone somewhere on this thing wondering why it matters, this is why. it would be great to claim another brilliant, talented avenging angel for our war against the hypocrites, haters, homophobes, and bigots.

  33. Lonely says:

    I agree with above. in fact i think the last post was beautiful. It’s difficult out in this world. Fiona Apple said it best “This world is bullshit”. It is. Im hating myself most of the time, being gay, but trying to love myself as well. it dosnt matter if sufjan is gay or not, honostly it would be nice to have another role model and someone to drool over…but his music does more than enough for me.

  34. Samsonite says:

    How naive to think that I was the only one that is concerned with Sufjan’s sexuality. But the question had to come up because I really adore this guy. I know it’s silly to question the sexuality of celebrities, but I just can’t help my curiousity.
    I was very excited about his lyrics that imply that he actually could be gay, but I decided not to keep my hopes up high, especially when I saw the poster that was in his Christmas box. It is actually his family, isn’t it? I mean, look at the elder boy. He resembles Sufjan an awful lot. If the woman on the photo is really his wife, then she can count herself very lucky. She looks very nice.
    To answer the question Sufjan asked on one of the Christmas CDs: Yes, he made me cry. Not exactly on Christmas times, but a many times before. However, I’m not quite sure whether I deserved it.

  35. 8thfloorjon says:

    That photo of him with two cheerleaders. No zipper at the front. Liberace had his men wear trousers that zipped up at the back too. Something about this guy makes me want to torture him until he renounces jesus. Just too talented, cute, rich & smug & needs a good slap. Still bone it though.

  36. Anonymous says:

    I’m pretty sure that’s not his real family

  37. Bert says:

    Ooh, Ray is totally hot for nautical nun – you go Ray!

    Who cares whether Sufjan is gay or not? And if you think being gay is wrong because of something in the Bible, well, Grow Up.

    And read something else. And realize that the Bible is chockful of errors and prejudices anyway.

    Sigh.

  38. Megh says:

    I found this debate about it online. It seems we all want to know.

    http://www.convinceme.net/viewOpenDebate.php?dib=3

  39. nick says:

    he’s totally bisexual. i’ve slept with him and so has my sister.

  40. who cares what type of gay is he, if he is gay that is, hopefully…..anyways i have ahuge crush on that man, yum yum yum yum….i’ll take a gay sufjan stevens over a straight one any day

  41. pixie says:

    i dont think sufjan is gay i just think he is very emotional
    which is nice

  42. Magnetic says:

    Don’t be funny. Everybody know he is gay. Sufjan, you are my fantasy!

  43. Veronica says:

    How could one deny that Stevens is gay? His music definitely exudes a homoromantic vibe, and his christianity, i think, confirms, not contradicts, the fact. john wayne gacy is all about battling with one’s inner demons; the comparision he makes between himself and the rapist/murderer alludes perhaps to the awful guilt he feels for desiring what is “unchristian.” there are additional, more blatant references in other songs (palisades, chicago, alone, etc.), but what convinced me of his orientation was casimir pulaski day. my friend and i were driving listening to that song one night and she said she imagined it was a sad story about forbidden love between two boys. after listening to it again, i agreed (i mean, sneakers, tucked in shirts, repressive fathers are all remininscent of the turmoil which comes with gay sexual adolescence, maybe in the 70s or 80s when middle America was very conservative). and everyone makes such a big deal about the term “blouse,” but really, couldn’t the word be artistic diction, intended to make his (male) lover seem more fragile and graceful and vulnerable?

  44. Whateva Mane says:

    I just wanna say one thing for the idiot Jaime Prater that wrote ” I’m gay and Christian”, well your a hypacrite. Aparently you dont practice what you preech and you’re not a true Christian. The bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin. I also thought that Sufjan Stevens was gay when I heard the song To Be Alone With You, although that was before I took the time to read the lyrics and read some of these comments. His lyrics definately are biblicaly based.

  45. Jaime Prater says:

    Practice what I preach? First of all, the Bible doesn’t say anything, it’s not a person. For years the church preached that the earth was flat and exiled Galileo for his beliefs that the world was indeed round.

    It wasn’t until 1992 that Pope John Paul II conceded that Galileo knew what he was talking about. How about this….the Bible in it’s original Aramaic and Greek never uses the word *homosexual* once. The Bible is not a book on human sexuality, nor is it a book on marine biology, the Bible is a book on the history of how people experienced God when Christ lived and before….and before you go spewing quotes from the Bible, remember that right after it codemns a man lying with another man as an abomination, it then characterizes eating shellfish as an abomination as well.

    So, “whateva mane” clearly you have homework to do. I am so sick of idealogues.

  46. jk says:

    bottom – probably kinky – cause he doesn’t like showing much skin – he’s always proper – but christian ideologies might prove ultimately to be an issue – not the kind of person who would get into drug sex (maybe mary jane but not poppers or e-coke) – lol

    there’s no question that sufjans is gay – it’s that too-well-trimmed handlebar ‘tache – compare to devendra who tries so hard to be gay but is so pathetically straight – awful hippy beard a dead giveaway

    of course sufjan might just be a very hip metrosexual christian – but he addresses a lot of men in intimate settings in his songs – that would be the real giveaway

    and who cares if sufjans is gay or not? i don’t really give a shit – i have crushes on talented cute people all the time – but it doesn’t mean i want to fuck em – talented cute ppl usually a bit fucked up – lol – but it’s fun trying to guess, no?

  47. jk says:

    actually – that showing skin bit was a bit bimboish – lol – bottoms show everything – ha ha ha

  48. Nico says:

    oh look at his face. He’s gay and I want a boyfriend like him. I’m feeling like a teen and i want a poster in my pink room… ok, ok who cares if he’s gay or not, but it’s a joke, it’s a dream!

  49. Jason says:

    #6 Jaime Prater –
    “I am gay but I am Christian, so the two are not mutually exclusive. In some circles they are however.”

    So…you are the supreme authority on this? “I am gay but I am Christian, [therefore]…” Does the fact that you’re gay and still claim to be a Christian set an absolute precedent? You saying that only establishes the fact that you’re gay and still claim to be a Christian. It’s not (and it makes me hurt to feel like I actually have to point this out) a logical argument.

    Christian: follower of Christ (or, “little Christ”) . As a Christian, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God? If you do, you must believe that it is an objective, absolute authority. Well, Lev 20:13 reads “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” It couldn’t be clearer. I feel sure you see my point.

    “and before you go spewing quotes from the Bible, remember that right after it condemns a man lying with another man as an abomination, it then characterizes eating shellfish as an abomination as well.” Actually, that’s before (not after) it condemns a man lying with another man (Leviticus 20:13), but that’s irrelevant. Leviticus 11:12 “Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that [shall be] an abomination unto you.” God gave that law to protect the children of Israel.

    Fish (and other sea/river creatures) with scales are protected from impurities in the water. Modern health experts have confirmed that fish without scales (like catfish) are unhealthy.

    Your argument is like saying, “Don’t pay any attention to the law. Sure, it prohibits murder, but then it turns around and says you can’t pass a car in a no-passing zone. Stupid law.”

  50. Jason says:

    #32 Thomas –
    “That’s the way God made them [gays].

    Genesis 1:27 “…in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” Not, “…in the image of God and also in another image created he him; straight males, gay males, straight females and gay females created he them.”

    Isaiah 43:7 “Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory.” What kind of God condemns sodomy (homosexuality) and then creates humans (to his glory) that possess “natural” attraction to their own sex–directly opposite to his law?

    Mat 5:17 “Think not that I [Jesus] am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” I don’t think the real Jesus was “cool with gays being gay.”

  51. mattie says:

    i read in an interview that he kissed girls on the rooftop of factories.
    i just thought that piece of information might come in handy for your search to decide if sufjan stevens is gay.

  52. Steven says:

    This has to be the dumbest discussion I’ve ever heard. Even the people asking “why does this matter?” are offering their two cents.

  53. Drew says:

    Sufjan is an amazing artist; whether this reflects in any way upon his sexuality is obviously up for discussion, but I think it’s completely beside the point. However, if he is gay, good for him and I hope he gives me a call.

  54. allgoodnaysayers says:

    Sufjan is indeed gay, homosexual, whatever AND a practicing Christian. He goes to a liberal Episcopal church in Brooklyn. And he rides rump. so what.

  55. Anonymous says:

    eugh. to be alone with you is about jesus you idiots, as are a lot of those other songs

  56. Anonymous says:

    eugh. to be alone with you is about jesus, as are a lot of those other songs.

  57. Anonymous says:

    to the guy who said “you are obviously not a real christian…”
    im not gay but i am a christian and… woah woah woah. i dont think thats for you to decide. god knows that other persons heart and thats all you have to worry your little head about. [although im not too sure why you’re getting so fired up at someone on a meesage board anyway…]

  58. Jaime Prater says:

    It’s been a while since I’ve visited this little blog, but upon perusing a response one of my post received, I had to respond back in kind.

    First of all, Christ is ‘The Word.’ “The Word became flesh, and he dwelled among us.” Secondly, The Bible was declared the word of God by man, and not by Christ. Third, there are many Christians who believe a variety of different things. Theology has become quite subjective.

    Jason wrote “As a Christian, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God? If you do, you must believe that it is an objective, absolute authority. ”

    No, I do not believe the Bible is the absolute authority, that again is another man-made rule, nowhere decreed by God or Christ. You asked me if by my reasoning I would consider myself an authority? Maybe not THE authority, but AN authority, for me and my understanding. My sexual identity and my relationship to my understanding of God has been a easy one.

    There appears to be this idea that a patent has been put on following the teachings of Christ, that it can only happen the way the church says it can happen. It’s ridiculous.

    The message of Christ has always been a simple one “no one comes to the father but by me.” Or “Believe and you shall be saved.” Since the dawn of Christiandom there have been disqualifiers placed upon the service of Christ.

    “You can’t serve Christ if you are this, or if you are that” and yet, God called David, [of the bible] a murderer and an adulterer, a man after his own heart. So yes, with the teachings of Christ as my witness, I am an authority of serving God and yet maintaining my natural born sexual identity. I have found my peace, it seems others need to find theirs.

  59. petrocelli says:

    Have you watched that You-Tube video? “[These shoes] slip on like a pair of silk stockings”. Plus, the shoes in question belong to his very close touchy-hand-on-knee friend’s ex. The shoes are size 11. The friend’s ex is a man. Proves nothing. I’m just saying.

    But I think we are totally falling for a very narrow view of what heterosexual male behaviour can be, and a very narrow view of sexuality generally. I have some pretty ‘gay acting’ (yes, what does that mean, etc etc, I am just using it as shorthand) straight friends here in Sydney; i.e. my gaydar would say 100% gay but they seem to be genuinely straight. No, I haven’t hit on them to find out, or secretly attached sat nav to them to see if they visit certain establishments.

    While sexuality can be important to understanding some artists, really to me it’s only an issue if Stevens is gay but saying homophobic or anti-gay things. Of course if he were also keeping schtum because the Christian market is very lucrative for him then that’s would also be very shameful.

    If he is gay and isn’t telling, there could be 1000 reasons. I remember reading an interview with k.d. lang and she was asked why she didn’t come out before, and she said that, well, she hadn’t told her mum and she wasn’t going to tell some magazine before telling her mum.

    Whatever he is, he’s very very talented and pulse-racingly handsome to boot, with a great playfulness regarding his image – but someone needs to tell him to be a bit less prolific and to trim his albums back a bit because they often seem about 4 tracks too long.

    This is a link to a great little bit of education/ammo for all those “the bible says you are an abomination” moments. You can very easily show the person holding this opinion that they are being highly selective about what they choose to strictly adhere to in the bible, and, therefore, they are being just plain old prejudiced.

    http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html

  60. MrMaybeMe says:

    Dear Jaime Prater,
    I just wanted to let you know that whether being gay is or isn’t a sin doesn’t change your relationship with Jesus. Jesus died to save you of your sin. He didn’t die so you could be perfect on Earth. He died so you can be perfect in heaven. I am not gay, not a murderer, and a virgin. But I am also a sinner and I cannot make myself OK or good enough no matter what I do. That is why Jesus died. He lived the life I should have and takes my punishment for it. All I have to do is accept it.

    Let me say that again:
    All I have to do is accept it.

    Additionally,
    All the old laws like not eating shellfish found in Leviticus have been changed. They worked back then. But when Jesus came, he changed the system. He conquered those laws. So you can be gay and be a have a relationship with Jesus. You can smoke pot and be a Christian. And NO ONE has a right to change that. In fact, people who generally tell you otherwise need to be shown this Grace as well. They are trying to earn it. They can’t. I can’t. You can’t.

    Disagree with me? Read Ephesians 2 (esp. 8-9)
    This does require that you actually believe the Bible.

    As for Sufjan: I know he is a Christian. I’m pretty sure he has a family. Just because someone can express emotions well doesn’t make them gay. He’s not gay

  61. Anonymous says:

    I think it’s pretty sad that you feel the need to cast this guy with your own wishful stereotypes. He’s an artist who’s allowed to be a dreamer of so many personalities. That’s the joy of being an artist; the ability to become any role for any idea.
    I think you also have missed the point with a lot of his lyrics, looking at them in a very shallow-like way.

  62. Jason says:

    Dear Mr. Prater,
    I apologize for the sarcastic attitude in which I wrote my last reply. I should take the good example of MrMaybeMe and speak in love. It doesn’t do anybody any good to yell. MrMaybeMe is dead on target up to a certain point, but I will address that a little later.

    I think discussing these things is very healthy. As long as it’s done civilly and orderly, debating is a good thing. First, I would like to briefly discuss some points you brought up, then I’ll make a few points of my own.

    1. “The Bible was declared the word of God by man, and not by Christ.” I assume you mean “the Bible” as the Old Testament. Jesus did indeed verify the Old Testament as true. He quoted from it numerous times and spoke of the people in the OT as real people. I may be misunderstanding your point, but taking you statement at face value, I don’t see a valid argument.

    2. “There are many Christians who believe a variety of different things. Theology has become quite subjective.” You are basing your theology on what other people think and not on what God says is true.

    3. “I do not believe the Bible is the absolute authority, that again is another man-made rule, nowhere decreed by God or Christ.” I don’t understand your logic. If you believe that there is at least some truth in the Bible, you must believe that the entire Bible is true. “All scripture is given by given by inspiration of God…” You cannot prove the Bible is true by any external source. Belief is by faith.

    4. “Since the dawn of Christiandom there have been disqualifiers placed upon the service of Christ.” The Catholic Church did and does indeed believe that salvation was obtained by works. I agree with you in disagreeing with it.  However, working your way to heaven is not the same as living righteously as God commanded (something which is impossible for depraved man to do—I will discuss that later).

    “…and yet, God called David, [of the bible] a murderer and an adulterer, a man after his own heart.” But David repented of his sins. This can be clearly seen in the Psalms. Certainly, the blood of Jesus still covers adulterers, cheaters, murderers—think of the most despicable scum you can think of, His blood still cleanses him. That is what is so incredibly amazing about the love of Christ! But if one truly has a changed heart, he will repent of his sins and stop doing them.

    A. God’s first covenant (the law) was faulty—man is depraved and could not possibly keep our side of the covenant. The law was a curse (Rom 5:20). With Christ’s work, the law no longer needed to be observed, because he made the picture of sacrifice (which appears everywhere throughout the Ceremonial law) a reality. He “fulfilled” it.

    B. But he came also to bring us the true sense of the law—to show us what it meant (Heb 8:7-10 “I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:”) The law was once in stone, now they are in our minds and hearts. The law is not done away with, it’s inside us (Psa 40:7-10; 119:18,70,97 “I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.”).

    C. Rom 1:26,27 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections…men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” God hasn’t changed. What He is and what He isn’t pleased with hasn’t changed (Matt 5:18 “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”).

    MrMaybeMe said, “All the old laws like not eating shellfish found in Leviticus have been changed. They worked back then. But when Jesus came, he changed the system. He conquered those laws.” That could not be truer. However, his conclusion that “you can be gay and [be a Christian]” is not true. If sodomy is wrong in God’s eyes and always will be, there’s no way to marry a homosexual lifestyle with a true Christian lifestyle. Supposing someone is a homosexual and comes to Christ, if his heart is truly changed he will recognizes its error.

    I hope I have made my points understandable. I pray that you can see a legitimate difficulty with this issue.

    p.s. to everyone: Sufjan Stevens is incredibly incredible. “Illinois” is a masterpiece.

  63. Carlos Silva says:

    It´s an horrible post this one. Is that interesting the way anyone wants to give to their life?

  64. Luka says:

    First of all, Jason, its assholes like you who are the reason there is homophobia. Sure the bible is gods words, but who wrote it? i dont believe god has a printing press… it had to come from man at somepoint. Just because it says in some verses that homosexuality is wrong, doesn’t mean anything. The bible contridicts itself tons of times. for example, it may say that if a man loves another man its a sin, but it also says that he created all men and women wheather they are straight or gay.

    I think its funny how those people like you, jason, pass judgement on others like myself, and try to convince us that what were doing is a sin, even though me being gay has absolutely nothing to do with you, and is not at all your business.

    I am christian by the way.

    Ps. This blog has totally lost its train of thought. it was originally about Sufjan Stevens!

  65. mark says:

    http://www.annarborpaper.com/content/issue19/sufjan_19.html

    A2P: My favorite cut on the new album is “The Dress Looks Nice on You.” From the first listen I was hooked on the song and I still am. Any insight as to the motivation for that song?
    SS: High school girlfriend. Two years older. I was hardly through puberty. It was awkward and great. But I had no concept of graciousness and being a man and holding doors open. What did she see in me? Well, the song is nothing about that. It’s about understanding the potential of something but not being able to do anything about it. She was looking for a husband. I was looking for something far less permanent, of course.

    As much as I want him to be gay… it seems like evidence is on the other side. Of course having a high school girlfriend doesn’t mean you’re not gay.

  66. Devin says:

    Well, on his first album “A Son Came” he has a song called “Super Sexy Woman”.

    Which is basically about him being in love with some girl.

  67. Anonymous says:

    Which is basically about him being in love with some girl.

    A girl with a superman smile? Of course it can be interpreted in many ways , i think the border between sexual ambiguity and religious devotion (priests anyone?)
    is an interesting one. Whether Sufjan is gay or not is not the issue. He tells stories, even if they are from the me-perspective. As much as leonard cohen or tom waits sing from the point of empathy.

    And i really don’t understand the type of christians that can say that being gay is a sin, since an allpowerful God cannot make mistakes. Don’t judge others is one of the vital things that the bible says, yet you seem all to keen to pass judgement as if you are god. And that kind of arrogance is a sin.

  68. Ashley says:

    He’s clearly a bottom, but I think that he could get a little aggressive and take on a top role…for about 5 seconds. Then he’ll chill out and get on his back, or all fours.

  69. Jeff says:

    I can’t believe I’m commenting on this. But I am. I don’t know him, so of course like everybody else I can only speculate. He triggers my gaydar and he’s still single at 33. As for what he likes–first of all, his lyrics are very conscientious and his music, shows, and outfits are detail-oriented to the point of perfection. All of that indicates that he is at least a little bit obsessive-compulsive. OCD guys typically hold themselves to high moral standards, which I would take to mean he’s definitely no slut and possibly even celibate. I would guess his preference, if he’s gay, in the following order: 1. gentle top; 2. non-anal; 3. versatile with a very high standard for giving up the pink. Probably a loyal, nice-guy boyfriend, gay or straight.

  70. nick says:

    He sings through other peoples point of view. He isn’t gay at all.

  71. Anias says:

    i think this is a big mis-interpretation of his lyrics. sufjan sings aboult love and faith in a sensual way. just because he doesn’t have such a generic, manly perspective on sex and erotica does not mean he’s homosexual, just that he’s maybe less agressive then the generic man.

  72. Moi says:

    Ever see the documentary on the Danielson Familie? I got toally gay vibes from Sufjan regarding him and Brother Danielson. They totally messed around in college I bet.

  73. Jordan says:

    I just wanted to say something. I don’t know if anyone will ever read this but I’m 25 and I’ve been out for 12 years. Growing up I had no decent, Moralistic, kind role models or crushes to look up to and or to dream about. I know people become offended by the constant accusation of homosexuality and the tendencies of the public and media to expose and destroy people who deserve the right to be what and who they are, but on a broader scale you have to see the need that all people have for love and the admiration we all share for the grand class we call celebrities. I wasn’t searching the web trying to discover the orientation of my favourite performer for any sexual hopes or dreams of a life with him. But to me the possibility of someone as kind, wonderful, and beautiful as Sujan being gay brings me hope and faith in the fact that maybe I am not one of one, but one of a few and that maybe just maybe I have a strong, intelligent being to look up to and follow. I am a strong Christian without shame for my name or orientation. Being Christian or gay says little or nothing of whom or what you are. I admire and adore Sufjan for who ever or what ever he is or isn’t but it would just be a bright moment to know someone as amazing as him may share traits with me and my small world.

  74. jellyfish says:

    I have always wondered the same thing. His songs are just magical, they make you feel so loved, at some point in my life I fell in love with Sufjan. I’m glad to have come across this post, some of the comments are just beautiful.

    I think whether or not Sufjan is gay, that won’t stop a legion of men from falling in love with him. He’s just amazing in every way, isn’t he?

  75. Patrycja says:

    It has taken me a long time to read all those comments and still I don`t have any opinion about him being gay.
    I just hope his not cause it would be a real waste for all girls (including me), even knowing that i won`t have a chance to meet him …

  76. zaK says:

    To understand lyrics like “I’d give my body…”etc. and others, in Sufjan’s music, one needs view in light of his theology as an Anglican (Episcopalian). Most if not all of his music speaks in the more high-church Christian vernacular, tho he’s not so heavy handed as to preach at people directly. Episcopalians try to refrain from shoving it down your throat. I have no comment on his sexual orientation— because binary ideas of sexuality— “gay”, “straight”— “man”, “woman” are so last century! Gender is a social construct and sex— biological sex— is a spectrum continuum and not a dichotomy. Whomever he is, Sufjan is a beautiful child of God, as we all are; not to mention the only real example of a “Christian Contempory Artist” (if you could call him that) from my denomination.—ha!

    But you’re totally right, before I listened close and figured it out he was singing to Jesus, I thought Sufjan was some hipster writing songs for his boyfriend.

    ~peace~

  77. Jaime says:

    Wow..this thread is still going. I first responded to this 5 years ago. Crazy. Not a Christian. Still gay. Much happier. 🙂

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